Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Need help with C/Bb/A Cornet (Read 5635 times)
mcjweller
Sitting In
*
Offline


Trumpets, trombones and
tubas . . . oh my!

Posts: 4
Joined: May 19th, 2010
Need help with C/Bb/A Cornet
May 19th, 2010 at 5:04pm
Print Post  
I have a C/Bb/A cornet that I rescued from an appointment with a dumpster. An old friend of mine had it for a "wall decoration" and wanted to toss it. Wow.

Anyway I have been trying for some time now to identify it. Finally today I found a photo of something exactly the same, it is your catalog number 2003.

Mine however is not silver plated but appeared to just be brass laquered, and has "Class A Thos. Claxton Ltd. Toronto" engraved on the bell. The only other marking is on the rim of the lead pipe "CZECHO - LOWAKIA" (not a typo, that's how it's printed).

Thomas Claxton imported instruments from about 1869 through to I think 1930 (well he died in 1911 but the business continued).

I'm despirate to know if anyone knows the date of the cornet in the catalgue (2003) as mine must be the same. Later on I will post pics if I can. ANY help appreciated!!!!!!!!!

Thanks

Matt Weller
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
pryorphone
Global Moderator
repair
*****
Offline


Oboes are best used for
setting fire to bassoons

Posts: 1396
Location: Wilmington, DE
Joined: Feb 23rd, 2005
Re: Need help with C/Bb/A Cornet
Reply #1 - May 19th, 2010 at 6:13pm
Print Post  
Wikipedia says that "Czecho-Slovakia" was only used in 1918-1923 and 1938-1939.
  

Michael Keller
unPrincipaled Tuba Emeritus
The Delaware Symphony Orchestra
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
hornman64
Full Member
***
Offline


Enchanted by brass

Posts: 100
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan
Joined: Dec 18th, 2006
Gender: Male
Re: Need help with C/Bb/A Cornet
Reply #2 - May 19th, 2010 at 6:46pm
Print Post  
Is that the Gautier cornet? I would vote for the 1918-23 period. I used to have a Ward's Concertone marked with Bohemia, the name for Czech area before 1918.  After 23 they were marked Czechloslovakia. I had an unmarked trumpet of that type at one time.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mcjweller
Sitting In
*
Offline


Trumpets, trombones and
tubas . . . oh my!

Posts: 4
Joined: May 19th, 2010
Re: Need help with C/Bb/A Cornet
Reply #3 - May 19th, 2010 at 9:47pm
Print Post  
Seems everything I read conflicts. Read one place that said if it has where it was made stamped on it, it has to be 1891 or newer as the origin was required by law. Then in 1923 that same law required "made in" to be included.

But then another thing I read said "Czecho-Lovakia" if it appears in this way is pre-WW1

I am the farthest thing from an expert you'll ever find, but I haven't seen too many cornets or trumpets from 1900 on that have the flared out valve caps at the bottom. But, who knows. Would add some pics if I could figure out how...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kenton
YaBB Administrator
*****
Offline



Posts: 6626
Location: Punxsutawney, Pa
Joined: Jan 6th, 2005
Gender: Male
Re: Need help with C/Bb/A Cornet
Reply #4 - May 19th, 2010 at 9:49pm
Print Post  
Send pictures to me at Kenton@horn-u-copia.net and I'll process and post them.

  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
rj
Sitting In
*
Offline


Trumpets, trombones and
tubas . . . oh my!

Posts: 2
Joined: May 17th, 2010
Re: Need help with C/Bb/A Cornet
Reply #5 - May 19th, 2010 at 10:40pm
Print Post  
sending from my blackberry
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mcjweller
Sitting In
*
Offline


Trumpets, trombones and
tubas . . . oh my!

Posts: 4
Joined: May 19th, 2010
Re: Need help with C/Bb/A Cornet
Reply #6 - May 20th, 2010 at 2:11am
Print Post  
I think I've figured out how to post. If you compare this to catalog item 2003, you will note the following differences:

round circular pull tabs on the lead pipe tuning crooks
2nd valve slide has a significant angle to it
long section of tube parallel to the 3rd valve slide on mine is longer but narrower than catalog item 2003.
The tubing support aft of the 3rd valve on 2003 anchors down on the tubing as it enters the 3rd valve, on mine it attaches on the 3rd valve slide.

What appears to be a pinky hook by the 3rd valve is in fact some wire someone in it's passed rigged up.

Consensus seems to be 1918 to 1923. Has hoped it would be older just for the sake of being able to say I had a 100 year old horn but, it is what it is.

So...then the next question...do they have any value, is it worth restoring? Not to sell it but for my own personal use? How do these play, are they decent horns?



« Last Edit: Jun 12th, 2010 at 12:34pm by kenton »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mcjweller
Sitting In
*
Offline


Trumpets, trombones and
tubas . . . oh my!

Posts: 4
Joined: May 19th, 2010
Re: Need help with C/Bb/A Cornet
Reply #7 - May 20th, 2010 at 1:43pm
Print Post  
Check out Catalog items 1485, 7284 and 3793. These instruments do not have the extra tubing that my horn and catalog 2003 have along side the valves but other than that, in terms of design details and the 2nd valve slide style and angle, and the length of tubing aft of the 3rd valve (and the rim of the lead pipes) these other 3 more closely match my horn.

So what confuses me is what I have read say a horn stamped "Czecho-" anything must be no older than 1918 because the republic didn't exist prior to that. But all the ones I have seen that have the same 2nd valve slide and other details like mine, are marked "Austria" which I believe are the pre-Czecho horns. So is it a reasonable conclusion to say if this is 1918 to 1923 than it is an early horn in that time period, since it more closely resembles the horns that precede that time period? The spelling of CZECHO-LOWAKIA (with a "W") interests me, nobody has made mention of it, could that also be a clue into the age? Did they spell it differently in the very beginning? Were any regions known as a Czech region prior to 1918 that this was made in? (czech, but nut czech republic?)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
rj
Sitting In
*
Offline


Trumpets, trombones and
tubas . . . oh my!

Posts: 2
Joined: May 17th, 2010
Re: Need help with C/Bb/A Cornet
Reply #8 - Jun 8th, 2010 at 10:03pm
Print Post  
can u send email address again-i now have pic ready-sorry for the delay
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kevin67
Senior Contributor
repair
*****
Offline



Posts: 448
Location: Charlotte, Michigan
Joined: Aug 4th, 2005
Gender: Male
Re: Need help with C/Bb/A Cornet
Reply #9 - Nov 13th, 2013 at 12:25pm
Print Post  
Just a thought, If the horn was not imported to the USA then the country name "Czecholowakia" would not be written in English.  Thus a more German spelling.
  

These talking machines are going to ruin the artistic development of music in this country. �&&John P. Sousa
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Kurt Walter
Major Contributor
****
Offline


Trumpets, trombones and
tubas . . . oh my!

Posts: 168
Joined: Dec 23rd, 2012
Re: Need help with C/Bb/A Cornet
Reply #10 - Nov 14th, 2013 at 6:02pm
Print Post  
With Mr Weller's permission, we can post this at the Meusum at Markneukirchen to see what they can add. With the stancil indicating Czech, it's likely from the Vogtland, which encompases the souther border area of Saxony and and the northern border of what is now the Czech Republic (Bohemia), in former times including parts the Sudetenland.
Of coincidence, is the likley repsponders from the Museum site will also be named Weller.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint