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euphiddle
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"Common-Wealth" Euphonium
Jun 18th, 2008 at 11:15pm
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I have this fairly old 3 valve (vertical) bell up euphonium. It is satin silver with fairly ornate engraving on the bell. The engraving includes a scene of the Washington monument with "Common-Wealth" inscribed on it, and an ornate flower at the base.

It's in good condition and has a great tone. I play it as a 2nd horn.

I'm curious as to the manufacturer. It has some features (bracing details primarily, and the ornate flower) that make me think it might be a Conn make, vintage 1920s. Any other clues would be appreciated!

Some specs: .560" bore, 11" bell, SN86495, mop buttons, bell engraving



Regards,
Euphiddle


« Last Edit: Dec 12th, 2009 at 12:54am by kenton »  
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kenton
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Re: "Common-Wealth" Euphonium
Reply #1 - Aug 25th, 2008 at 12:49am
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Looks to me to be a tenor horn.

  
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kevin67
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Re: "Common-Wealth" Euphonium
Reply #2 - Aug 25th, 2008 at 1:35am
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Below, is a Hagar horn, probabaly sold as a Baritone.



So, its maker is still open for discussion.
  

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kevin67
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Re: "Common-Wealth" Euphonium
Reply #3 - Aug 25th, 2008 at 1:37am
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If it helps, in my supplies I have a receiver for an Eb Tuba that has that same profile.  Any my supplies may have come from a craftsman who worked at Martin.
  

These talking machines are going to ruin the artistic development of music in this country. �&&John P. Sousa
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kevin67
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Re: "Common-Wealth" Euphonium
Reply #4 - Aug 25th, 2008 at 1:50am
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Also very close to this Pan Am Baritone
  

These talking machines are going to ruin the artistic development of music in this country. �&&John P. Sousa
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euphiddle
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Re: "Common-Wealth" Euphonium
Reply #5 - Aug 25th, 2008 at 2:54am
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Nice job composing the photos Kenton... thank you! The Hagar looks *really* close.. I'm not familiar with that make, but I'll look into it, and Martin as well. The Pan Am looks close too... the coupling for the bell section is of that style. That has been my 1st guess all along, except it doesn't have Pan American engraved on it.

I'm pretty sure it's an "American euphonium". It's got a .560" bore and a 11" bell. I play it with a Bach 6 1/2 or 5G. It's got a light and sweet tone and is fun to play. I like to play tunes from the "Ultimate Jazz Fakebook" on it.

Kevin67, you mentioned your "supplies". You don't happen to have a bit of tubing for the 2nd valve slide of a Boosey & Son Imperial do you? The bore is .580.

Best Regards to all,
Carroll
  
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Re: "Common-Wealth" Euphonium
Reply #6 - Aug 25th, 2008 at 6:11am
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It is probably just my eyes, tricking me.  Example, the left side picture of the Pan AM looks to be a more narrow bell than the picture of the same horn on the right. And, I wouldn't have predicted a 11 in bell either.
  
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euphiddle
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Re: "Common-Wealth" Euphonium
Reply #7 - Aug 25th, 2008 at 1:23pm
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I also noticed that about the Pan Am bell on the right. The flair on my horn is quite narrow, but increases quickly at the end to get to 11".

The three horns on this thread are so similar that it's hard not to think they are the same manufacturer (Conn, since we know about Pan Am). Did different manufacturers get parts from the same suppliers, or did each one build from the ground up? Is it likely that there are Conn stencils that are not documented? If so, does anyone have an opinion about how the serial numbers would fit in?

I added some specs to the initial post. Happy to add more if there is interest. Height and width of the horn?

Lots of questions!

- Carroll

  
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Re: "Common-Wealth" Euphonium
Reply #8 - Aug 25th, 2008 at 2:46pm
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euphiddle wrote on Aug 25th, 2008 at 1:23pm:
The three horns on this thread are so similar that it's hard not to think they are the same manufacturer (Conn, since we know about Pan Am). Did different manufacturers get parts from the same suppliers, or did each one build from the ground up?


Some did everything in-house.  Some makers would get parts from other makers or jobbers.

Quote:
Is it likely that there are Conn stencils that are not documented?


Yes, at least there are no records that we have access to.


Quote:
If so, does anyone have an opinion about how the serial numbers would fit in?



Often the stenciling company would use their own serial number system.  So, often the serial number on a stencil is meaningless.



  
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Re: "Common-Wealth" Euphonium
Reply #9 - Oct 15th, 2008 at 3:56am
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Just noticed a circa 1934 Pan American on EBay. Item number: 290267342477 - there are some decent pictures. It shares many details with my Common-Wealth such as the valve caps, stays, receiver stay, receiver, bottom bow plate & wire, section couplings, etc.

I'm concluding that Conn made my Common-Wealth and, I suspect, the Hagar as well.

- Carroll
  
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Kurt Walter
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Re: "Common-Wealth" Euphonium
Reply #10 - Nov 27th, 2013 at 9:06pm
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I revived this because I found a trade article where Conn Boston Company was give the OK and trademark for Common-Wealth or Commonwealth in 1926. So far I have seen saxes and currently on Ebay is a Mellophone. Pan American seems to be the provider and not Cavalier.
The horn pictured here is a Pan American as it has the 1st valve thumb hook. Cavaliers do not - I have the Cavalier.
Is it still possible to get the serial number?
  
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Re: "Common-Wealth" Euphonium
Reply #11 - Nov 27th, 2013 at 9:12pm
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I take it back, The serial number is posted. However, The bore doesn't seem correct. The Cavalier and the Conn equivalent (64i)(I have both) are at 0.530 bore on the 2nd valve slide.
These are playable with a trombone mouthpiece and are small bore. Conn calss them Baritones even though the tuning is after the 3rd valve. I think Conn uses bore size for determination.
  
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